7 replies to this topic

[Darthus]

Wow. Apparently Eurogamer reviewed Darkfall and gave it a 2/10. Then Aventurine, Darkfall's dev company, sent Eurogamer server logs that the reviewer had played the game for 2-3 hours. The reviewer (a freelancer) says he played it for about 9 (which to me is still a very small amount for an MMO). There's been some back and forth, with the reviewer then saying Aventurine's logs are wrong, and now I guess they're getting Kieron from Rock, Paper, Shotgun to do a "second opinion".

This is kind of interesting, and while at first blush it seems sort of juvenile for Aventurine to pull out server logs and stuff, I can kind of see their side. The game currently is mostly serving a European audience and Eurogamer is like the biggest and most respected site over there, that's like getting a 2 from Gamespot. In the latest "A Life Well Wasted" (which you all should listen to) podcast, a game designer is on there talking about how a few key bad reviews can completely sink a game and potentially sink the careers of everyone involved, so I can see them wanting to fight it. It also brings up all kind of ethics in journalism and reviewing concerns if what Aventurine is saying is true, or even if the guy put 9 hours in. That's probably not even enough time to beat Call of Duty 4, much less review an MMO which is all about social, PvP end game content.

Here are the two forum posts which also link to the review and Eurogamer's blog response:

Original post

Response to blog post

[Nubs]

Honestly I think they should call the reviewer out for lying but I don't think it will help. Their game is missing quite a bit and thought it has tons of potential... I am kind of disapointed at this point. I really hope they can make some groundbreaking changes.

[bonedead]

I just can't stand all of the people who automatically have some vendetta against DF and Aventurine when they have no intention of ever playing it. The common phrase is along the lines of: "who cares about a company that's gonna be out of business in 6 months".

I want to say it's just a bunch of fuckin kids. Which makes me feel bad about my past on the internet. But gdamn, it makes me so angry. I don't even play the game, but it just reminds me of that carebear vs pker fights that used to be all over the place. I want to say it is just a bunch of dumb fucking WoW kiddies, ugh.

So angry.

They're having someone else rereview it.

I've written a lot of shit on the subject in comments at massively, comments at Hardcore Casual, and at Kill Ten Rats. Basically what I've argued is that the purpose of reviews is to inform possible customers of the game being reviewed. DF is obviously niche and the majority of players are obviously turned off by it. (and here's my gay thing) If you have a hardcore PvPer go into WoW and review it then you will get a review that the majority of players disagree with. You can't send a sheep into the wolves' den and expect it to have a chance of enjoying itself.

One of the biggest fights I have noticed in this crap is the defenders of the review thinking that it is no big deal. Because they are the majority of players who aren't even interested in playing it. I bet if you reviewed their favorite games in negative light (with blatant lies) they'd be singing the same damn tune, except they'd expect to be taken more seriously, and they would be too. It looks like we can learn from a page in the book of DF with this one, strength in numbers.

edit--
Also a percentage of the review defenders were ex DF players. They didn't even notice the factual errors in the review, which would lead me to believe they gave up just as quick. So many people ignored any news about the game prior to its release and just ran in there expecting to be king of the world (...of warcraft), and when it became apparent that it wasn't fucking possible they quit and bitch.

I hate being angry about games, but I also hate how MMO gamers can't accept that other people have different opinions and everything has to automatically be hostile.

[Darthus]

Tasos put up another forum post on the issue, and the re-review:

Link

While this section is a bit disturbing:

Ed Zitron spent 2 hours 33 minutes logged in the game and the character creator. In this time the reviewer tried 9 different characters. Much of the time was spent creating and deleting these characters. 14 minutes before the reviewer stopped playing Darkfall altogether he said in global chat: “how do I cast spells…..help”. During his entire time in the game he repeatedly asks: “what do I do?” in public chat. After less than an hour logged in the game he speaks in race chat and says “this game is awful” His entire chat log shows someone biased that spent very little time in game, didn’t understand even the very basics right before he stopped playing to write his review.

The rest of his post does not sound like a professional game developer. He makes a lot of personal attacks on Eurogamer and Ed Zitron and basically is ranting. I give him the right to defend his game, be angry and post the evidence, but he doesn't need to rant, it just makes a lot of sensible people who don't see what the big deal is dismiss him.

[Nubs]

Tasos put up another forum post on the issue, and the re-review:

Link

While this section is a bit disturbing:



The rest of his post does not sound like a professional game developer. He makes a lot of personal attacks on Eurogamer and Ed Zitron and basically is ranting. I give him the right to defend his game, be angry and post the evidence, but he doesn't need to rant, it just makes a lot of sensible people who don't see what the big deal is dismiss him.

Based on the small quote, I think he has the right to rant all he wants. However, as everyone knows, first impressions mean a hell of a lot and the fact that I never needed to be instructed how to cast spells or do pretty much anything in WOW speaks volumes about polish and attention to detail... which DF is very much missing. I can look past the polish and lack of forethought and sometimes even enjoy the fact that the game is designed for the hardcore players, but the developers need to understand that the first 15 minutes in game are what make or break you.

[bonedead]

The guy didn't have any business playing Darkfall in the first place imo. It is a very fucking acquired taste. I don't want to care anymore, I still do, but I'm gdamn tired of all the DF hate all over the internet. If you don't want to play it just stfu imo. I'm not going around reading reviews of WoW and posting how fucking dumb it is.

Anyways, Darthus, I have a quote I figured you could appreciate.

If you take a look at both sides of the slapfight, it might make more sense.

Eurogamer thrives on hits. I wonder if this wasn’t planned, knowing that the faithful would get their panties in a bunch and spread the story around like wildfire. As heartless_ says above, this is all great attention for Eurogamer.

Darkfall has to respond, of course. As you can see in this post, it has brought the people playing the game together to hate a common enemy. This has probably stopped people from tearing each other apart long enough to stall the “winner takes all” problems that Shadowbane had. Of course, this also gets the game more attention and might tempt a few people to try it out who might not have cared otherwise.

And, as someone who has run Meridian 59, another PvP-focused game with a tiny advertising budget, I can appreciate what the developers have to do to get the word out on a tight budget. They’ve reacted in a way that has given them a lot more attention than they would have gotten otherwise, and that’s always good for a game. “Professionalism” is a red herring here.

My perspective.

Link to the post

[mven]

I am all for Adventurine defending their game with server logs if they want. That's perfectly fine and dandy. I do feel however that the majority of what is wrong with darkfall can be experienced in the first 15 minutes of gameplay. Anyone familiar with modern MMOs is going to find the game clunky as fuck, ugly, and notice that it doesn't run all that great. There is no real direction given as you start game play so what the hell you are supposed to do without spending time doing research out of game is not immediately apparent. When you do find a direction and start your journey into the world of darkfall... Well it's not really fun. The combat mechanics are clunky and ugly as fuck. While the gameworld is not bad looking once you get used to the grainy shitty textures, it isn't going to amaze anyone who has played a game from the last decade. The NPC interaction is cumbersome and ugly, most Korean games do this better for christ's sake. The UI leaves MUCH to be desired. Etc etc etc etc etc etc.

The point I guess I am trying to make is that Darkfall is a terrible game for anyone who has not done massive amounts of pregaming and preplanning and preguilding and whatever else you can think of to do before actually playing a game. In fact I would go so far as to say the ONLY people who find the game appealing are those who are already Darkfall fanbois to some extent. So I think if the review is coming from the perspective of any regular MMO player, a 2/10 is probably a higher score than it deserves. Aside from appearance and stability Darkfall is much much worse and feels way less fleshed out than Shadowbane. And that is saying something in my opinion. I have talked to quite a few people who have fairly decent PvP backgrounds who have already given up on Darkfall. The lesson here just as it was with Shadowbane is that having open PvP does not somehow make a shitty game a good game. If this game had never been hyped as a PvP game I think they'd already be planning to close their doors.

Now, all that being said. I think in the case of someone who has either followed the game religiously, or who has at the very least secured himself an in game support network (i.e. guilds/friends to play with and who can help out) I think there might be some fun to be found. It's not even a matter of being a hardcore PvPer. It's all about having the patience and/or tolerance or finding something that amuses you enough that you are able to tolerate a steaming pile of shit. I think just like any MMO with enough friends and entertaining people playing, there is fun to be had. I just don't think without that that Darkfall can stand alone and still be fun to play.

I don't really know what Aventurine would consider a fair review of their game. Maybe someone who has invested a ton of time moving their guild over to darkfall and who plays it religiously in hopes that something will change to make the game amazing...? I dunno.

*shrug*

[bonedead]

Jil, youre right and gay as usual. I mean shit, I've got 2 level 90 traders in SWG and you played Vanguard for like 10 years. I don't fully know why I cared about this so much (if you read blogs I commented way too much) but I am glad that I don't feel the need to care anymore. I'm drunk.